Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

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Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:08 pm

What is your current list, not of "all time"?


10. Thiago Alves
9. Shinya Aoki
8. "Kid" Yamamoto
7. Rampage
6. Miguel Torres
5. Lyoto Machida
4. Rashad Evans
3. GSP
2. Anderson Silva
1. Fedor

I know people will think it is biased to say Machida so high and no BJ. Here is the justification:

FOR Machida- He has a KO over Franklin, a dominating win over Tito, a TKO over Sokodjou (who was coming off 2 KOs over Ricardo Arona and Lil Nog), a win over BJ Penn, a win over Stephan Bonnar, and.... the dude HASN'T lost! That means something. Him and Rashad are close for 4th and 5th.

AGAINST BJ: He is 4-3 in his last 7 fights... His win over Sherk was a roid-free stand-up fight against the short-limbed WRESTLER. It doesn't mean anything if he can out BOX Sherk... Tyson Griffin out boxed him too, big whoop, Franca out-struck him--many have. Okay, next fight, Joe Stevenson. Okay, Joe is tough, but wait... BJ wasn't able to sub him until he was disgustingly covered in blood and couldn't see, you could sense Joe's urgency from a mile away once he was cut. BUT, a win is a win, especially a choke! Oh wait, what was that? Kenny Florian just choked Joe out too? A round faster, you say? AND a non bloodied to hell version??? Geesh. Surely a win over Jens Pulver and Renzo Gracie (his only remaining 2 of the mentioned 4) solidify a guy as top 3 or 4 P4P! err... wait...

Okay, I KNOW that isn't the most fair analysis, his losses were against Hughes (when Hughes was on fire), GSP (no shame and a CLOSE fight), and a Machida (wait... isn't Machida 205? yup.) but I don't think "fair" is what ANY of his minions go by. All it is, is BJ saying he is the best, and he is back, and yatta yatta... He doesn't look in NEARLY as good of shape he did against Gomi. There is no proof, his gas tank hasn't been proven since he LOST by gassing. His fights haven't had the pace or length of the Hughes or GSP fights.

Okay, enough ranting.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Jennifer on Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:04 pm

I wouldn't say that's biased at all. It's more like fact. They are both right where they belong on your list.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mortis on Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:52 pm

Only got my Top 4 right now.. I've had to re-evaluate since Urijah lost his fight.. I think he's still in the Top 10, though.. a guy that I work with said that he thinks Urijah lost on purpose cuz he was getting bored. He wanted to start over and work his way back up to the top, again, lol.... like when you beat a video game, but want to play it again, you go in and erase your data and start over, lol.

1) Anderson Silva
2) Georges St. Pierre
3) Fedor Emelianenko
4) Miguel Torres

Lyoto Machida is going to be in my Top 10 list as well... I mean, how can you not put a guy with Samurai blood in your Top 10 fighters list? Smile
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mitch Ciccarelli on Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:14 am

Wow no love for B.J on these forums, huh? lol I'm not a "nut hugger" of his don't worry, but I do consider him one of my favorites out there right now and I DO think he will defeat GSP. I won't say anything else as you will most likely read about it in my article that should be posted on the site soon.

For the record I am a HUGE Lyoto Machida fan... but he isn't top 10 P4P just yet. He WILL be pretty soon though but again that's just my opinion.

My top 10 P4P list:

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Anderson Silva
3. B.J Penn *You will find out why after UFC 94 is all said and done Wink
4. Georges St. Pierre
5. Miguel Torres
6. Rashad Evans
7. Urijah Faber
8. Shinya Aoki
9. Forrest Griffin
10. Thiago Alves


Also I have to ask, how is Rampage on your top 10 but not Forrest?
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mitch Ciccarelli on Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:17 am

Also... I realize Urijah probably shouldn't be on there considering his KO loss to Mike Brown.... however in my eyes Faber is STILL one of the best fighters in the world today and will most likely get his belt back pretty soon.

I think his next fight will be against Jose Aldo, that's gonna be a really good fight if that is the case. Winner between them will probably fight the winner of Brown/Garcia for the title.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mortis on Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:19 pm

Mitch Ciccarelli wrote:
3. B.J Penn *You will find out why after UFC 94 is all said and done Wink

Even if he did win, that doesn't negate his first loss against GSP.. plus he's 2-3 against opponents higher than the 155 weight class.

I'm sorry, but there is no way that BJ Penn can be higher than GSP in a P4P list right now, since BJ has lost to GSP once before. If BJ does defeat GSP on Saturday, then he deserves that spot.. IMO.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:27 pm

Mitch Ciccarelli wrote:
Also I have to ask, how is Rampage on your top 10 but not Forrest?

it's simple....rampage is better. Smile forrest is b-level fighter with a weak chin. to top it off, it was a VERY controversial decision. besides, your the one with BJ over GSP. you also don't have machida which is pretty irrational. read my thing about BJ in my original post and please argue against it. i'll warn you, it's gonna be tricky!
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mitch Ciccarelli on Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:01 am

I personally think B.J Penn is better than GSP despite a controversial split decision loss to him. You feel the same way about the Rampage/Forrest fight so therefore both of our P4P lists are pretty much biased opinion whether we want to admit this or not.

As much as I like Lyoto Machida, realistically beating Sokoudjou and going the distance with Tito is not enough to go into the P4P top 10. Yes he beat Franklin, Bonnar, Penn (B.J at 185... come on now you know damn well it's not the same as beating B.J at LW.), these fights were not recent. B.J has done a lot more recently than Machida has, I know you disagree but it's the truth.

Let's take a look at each of their last four fights and compare:

B.J's last four fights:

TKO over former LW champ Sean Sherk
Submission over Joe Stevenson (a Joe Stevenson who was on a huge roll at the time, B.J killed his momentum)
Submission over Jens Pulver (I don't care how many fights Pulver has lost recently the guy is no push over. Beating him today isn't huge or anything, but still a big win at the time and B.J avenged a decision loss to him from years ago.)
TKO loss to Matt Hughes (Trust me man, B.J would own Hughes if they ever had that third fight. Good win for Hughes at the time though, but B.J has continued to improve and I can't say the same for Matt Hughes right now.)


Machida's last four fights:

Decision win over Tito Ortiz (I liked this fight a lot. Was a very good win for Machida, his biggest win recently. I'll give him that. Tito isn't a bad ass anymore though, but he isn't a push over either. This win IMO has the same kind of momentum Penn's win over Pulver had.)

Submission over Sokoudjou (I always thought Sokoudjou was kinda overrated, but at the time he was considered a top 10 LHW so this was a pretty big win for Machida over a top 10 guy.)

Decision win over Kaz Nakamura (good win but nothing special.)

Decision win over David Heath (same as above)



I'm not taking anything away from Machida, I'm a big big fan of his fighting style but I wouldn't rank him top 10 P4P just yet. He's a top ten light heavy for sure though.



I'm not the best arguer in the world so all we can pretty much do is wait and see what happens at UFC 94. If Penn gets destroyed, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about Cool
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Jennifer on Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:22 am

I'd be willing to bet the bank that GSP will walk away from Penn victorious once again. I don't think the last win was an accident and GSP has done nothing but get better since then. But you are right. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mitch Ciccarelli on Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:12 am

Hopefully my column will be up soon so you can read my official "BreakdowN" (yes I capitalize the N... don't judge me!! Laughing) on this fight.


Also for those interested, here is Dana White's first blog for UFC 94. He interviews some of the fighters at the WEC show from last night and they give their predictions on the fight. Check it out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK1cJRX_0JM&eurl=http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&authorID=62473611&messageID=6313575911&MyTokeniurl=http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/hK1cJRX_0JM/hqdefault.jpg&feature=player_embedded
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mitch Ciccarelli on Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:23 am

Alright my UPDATED top 10 Pound for Pound rankings:


1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Anderson Silva
3. Georges St. Pierre
4. Miguel Torres
5. B.J Penn
6. Rashad Evans
7. Lyoto Machida
8. Shinya Aoki
9. Forrest Griffin
10. Urijah Faber



Yep added Machida, lowered Penn... I have finally come to my senses I suppose.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:57 am

Mitch Ciccarelli wrote:Alright my UPDATED top 10 Pound for Pound rankings:


1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Anderson Silva
3. Georges St. Pierre
4. Miguel Torres
5. B.J Penn
6. Rashad Evans
7. Lyoto Machida
8. Shinya Aoki
9. Forrest Griffin
10. Urijah Faber



Yep added Machida, lowered Penn... I have finally come to my senses I suppose.

i'm not sure i get torres over rashad. quality of opponents rashad has some current and former P4P best plus not a loss. but then again, you have penn above them both so i guess making sense isn't went you are going for Razz
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mitch Ciccarelli on Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:03 am

Actually that's a good point.

So I'll just switch Torres and Rashad

Rashad =4
Torres= 5
B.J= 6
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Jake Amdahl on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:05 pm

DFDmike wrote:What is your current list, not of "all time"?


10. Thiago Alves
9. Shinya Aoki
8. "Kid" Yamamoto
7. Rampage
6. Miguel Torres
5. Lyoto Machida
4. Rashad Evans
3. GSP
2. Anderson Silva
1. Fedor

I know people will think it is biased to say Machida so high and no BJ. Here is the justification:

FOR Machida- He has a KO over Franklin, a dominating win over Tito, a TKO over Sokodjou (who was coming off 2 KOs over Ricardo Arona and Lil Nog), a win over BJ Penn, a win over Stephan Bonnar, and.... the dude HASN'T lost! That means something. Him and Rashad are close for 4th and 5th.

AGAINST BJ: He is 4-3 in his last 7 fights... His win over Sherk was a roid-free stand-up fight against the short-limbed WRESTLER. It doesn't mean anything if he can out BOX Sherk... Tyson Griffin out boxed him too, big whoop, Franca out-struck him--many have. Okay, next fight, Joe Stevenson. Okay, Joe is tough, but wait... BJ wasn't able to sub him until he was disgustingly covered in blood and couldn't see, you could sense Joe's urgency from a mile away once he was cut. BUT, a win is a win, especially a choke! Oh wait, what was that? Kenny Florian just choked Joe out too? A round faster, you say? AND a non bloodied to hell version??? Geesh. Surely a win over Jens Pulver and Renzo Gracie (his only remaining 2 of the mentioned 4) solidify a guy as top 3 or 4 P4P! err... wait...

Okay, I KNOW that isn't the most fair analysis, his losses were against Hughes (when Hughes was on fire), GSP (no shame and a CLOSE fight), and a Machida (wait... isn't Machida 205? yup.) but I don't think "fair" is what ANY of his minions go by. All it is, is BJ saying he is the best, and he is back, and yatta yatta... He doesn't look in NEARLY as good of shape he did against Gomi. There is no proof, his gas tank hasn't been proven since he LOST by gassing. His fights haven't had the pace or length of the Hughes or GSP fights.

Okay, enough ranting.

Bj has only one loss at 155 and he defended that loss. He lost to pretty hardcore, I'll give you that, but when you started calling his WINS into question because of how long it took or the fashion he got them in you just sound silly. Think about it. Why did he outbox sherk? Because sherk didn't take him down. So what if he didn't choke Joe before he bled...He STILL made him bleed and took that fight easily. List one fighter at lightweight who could beat him right now. I would bet money on Bj beating Shinya as well. I know you even admit it isn't a fair analysis but, really, bj HAS to be considered on the list SOMEwhere. In my opinion, you can't take anything away from him just because he lost his last fight to GSP. A week ago nobody would have even considered leaving him off this list.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:30 am

Jake Amdahl wrote:
DFDmike wrote:What is your current list, not of "all time"?


10. Thiago Alves
9. Shinya Aoki
8. "Kid" Yamamoto
7. Rampage
6. Miguel Torres
5. Lyoto Machida
4. Rashad Evans
3. GSP
2. Anderson Silva
1. Fedor

I know people will think it is biased to say Machida so high and no BJ. Here is the justification:

FOR Machida- He has a KO over Franklin, a dominating win over Tito, a TKO over Sokodjou (who was coming off 2 KOs over Ricardo Arona and Lil Nog), a win over BJ Penn, a win over Stephan Bonnar, and.... the dude HASN'T lost! That means something. Him and Rashad are close for 4th and 5th.

AGAINST BJ: He is 4-3 in his last 7 fights... His win over Sherk was a roid-free stand-up fight against the short-limbed WRESTLER. It doesn't mean anything if he can out BOX Sherk... Tyson Griffin out boxed him too, big whoop, Franca out-struck him--many have. Okay, next fight, Joe Stevenson. Okay, Joe is tough, but wait... BJ wasn't able to sub him until he was disgustingly covered in blood and couldn't see, you could sense Joe's urgency from a mile away once he was cut. BUT, a win is a win, especially a choke! Oh wait, what was that? Kenny Florian just choked Joe out too? A round faster, you say? AND a non bloodied to hell version??? Geesh. Surely a win over Jens Pulver and Renzo Gracie (his only remaining 2 of the mentioned 4) solidify a guy as top 3 or 4 P4P! err... wait...

Okay, I KNOW that isn't the most fair analysis, his losses were against Hughes (when Hughes was on fire), GSP (no shame and a CLOSE fight), and a Machida (wait... isn't Machida 205? yup.) but I don't think "fair" is what ANY of his minions go by. All it is, is BJ saying he is the best, and he is back, and yatta yatta... He doesn't look in NEARLY as good of shape he did against Gomi. There is no proof, his gas tank hasn't been proven since he LOST by gassing. His fights haven't had the pace or length of the Hughes or GSP fights.

Okay, enough ranting.

Bj has only one loss at 155 and he defended that loss. He lost to pretty hardcore, I'll give you that, but when you started calling his WINS into question because of how long it took or the fashion he got them in you just sound silly. Think about it. Why did he outbox sherk? Because sherk didn't take him down. So what if he didn't choke Joe before he bled...He STILL made him bleed and took that fight easily. List one fighter at lightweight who could beat him right now. I would bet money on Bj beating Shinya as well. I know you even admit it isn't a fair analysis but, really, bj HAS to be considered on the list SOMEwhere. In my opinion, you can't take anything away from him just because he lost his last fight to GSP. A week ago nobody would have even considered leaving him off this list.


news flash, know ya haven't been here... but i'll catch you up... i WROTE that over a week ago. BJ is NOW 4-4 of his last 8 and his wins at LW do not prove shit. he beat guys who aren't well versed where he beat them. he didn't outstrike a striker or sub a BJJ guy. he hasn't proven to me a whole lot. you sound just as ridiculous claiming BJ took joe "lightly." i don't know where the hell you got that info if it didn't come write out of your... well you know. sorry for the harsh tone, just carried over the one you set. Wink

there are plenty of consistent fighters with more impressive skill showcases in fights to make a top 10 without him. as for the whole, but he was WW comment. yeah, but how many LW wins does BJ even have??? plus, he went in at WW and split decisioned GSP and now he goes back and gets assaulted, it's not like their first was at LW. the sport is passing this lazy inflated cabbage patch kid by.

kenny florian WILL beat him.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Jake Amdahl on Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:03 am

DFDmike wrote:


news flash, know ya haven't been here... but i'll catch you up... i WROTE that over a week ago. BJ is NOW 4-4 of his last 8 and his wins at LW do not prove shit. he beat guys who aren't well versed where he beat them. he didn't outstrike a striker or sub a BJJ guy. he hasn't proven to me a whole lot. you sound just as ridiculous claiming BJ took joe "lightly." i don't know where the hell you got that info if it didn't come write out of your... well you know. sorry for the harsh tone, just carried over the one you set. Wink

there are plenty of consistent fighters with more impressive skill showcases in fights to make a top 10 without him. as for the whole, but he was WW comment. yeah, but how many LW wins does BJ even have??? plus, he went in at WW and split decisioned GSP and now he goes back and gets assaulted, it's not like their first was at LW. the sport is passing this lazy inflated cabbage patch kid by.

kenny florian WILL beat him.

I DIDN'T say he took joe lightly, I said that he beat joe pretty easily. I was agreeing he didn't beat sherk in sherk's best skill set. I was saying that it didn't matter because sherk wasn't able to take him down in the first place. You can't even begin to claim the sport is passing him by when he STILL holds the lightweight title that he won less than a year ago. Florian i do agree poses a pretty good sized threat to BJ but I still think he'd win. Basically all you did in this quote was reiterate the exact same argument you had before and then twisted the words i used to go on a tangent. I am not blaiming you, it probably was just you misreading my post. It happens. But it is undeniable that BJ has the title at lightweight and has beaten two very tough men to get and retain the title. Sherk was looking unbeatable at 155 before and his fight against Tyson griffin was a PRETTY GOOD indication of his skill set and abilities.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mortis on Mon May 25, 2009 4:14 pm

Updated List (Top 5):

1) Georges St. Pierre
2) Anderson Silva
3) Fedor Emelianenko
4) Lyoto Machida
5) Miguel Torres

I'd still put Urijah Faber at #6, and once he beats Mike Brown in a couple of weeks, I'll give him the #5 spot over Miguel Torres.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Mon May 25, 2009 6:40 pm

Mortis wrote:Updated List (Top 5):

1) Georges St. Pierre
2) Anderson Silva
3) Fedor Emelianenko
4) Lyoto Machida
5) Miguel Torres

I'd still put Urijah Faber at #6, and once he beats Mike Brown in a couple of weeks, I'll give him the #5 spot over Miguel Torres.

1 Fedor
2 Anderson
3 GSP
4 Machida
5 Torres

however, i'd like to say Machida over GSP due to GSP's suspect chin. but, i don't know. Machida has never even lost a round, been in danger, and has faced some tough opponents. his MMA run is actually, in my opinion, tougher than Anderson's UFC streak. if he dominates his next opponent, he moves to 2 for me.

and mortis, in reference to faber, i'll sig bet you with mike brown. you choose my signature if i faber wins, i choose yours if brown wins. deal?

i'll also sig bet anyone with velasquez over kongo. i guarantee kongo loses.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mortis on Mon May 25, 2009 10:02 pm

DFDmike wrote:
Mortis wrote:Updated List (Top 5):

1) Georges St. Pierre
2) Anderson Silva
3) Fedor Emelianenko
4) Lyoto Machida
5) Miguel Torres

I'd still put Urijah Faber at #6, and once he beats Mike Brown in a couple of weeks, I'll give him the #5 spot over Miguel Torres.

1 Fedor
2 Anderson
3 GSP
4 Machida
5 Torres

and mortis, in reference to faber, i'll sig bet you with mike brown. you choose my signature if i faber wins, i choose yours if brown wins. deal?


lol.. I'll take that bet.. this'll be a fun bet.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:14 am

Mortis wrote:
DFDmike wrote:
Mortis wrote:Updated List (Top 5):

1) Georges St. Pierre
2) Anderson Silva
3) Fedor Emelianenko
4) Lyoto Machida
5) Miguel Torres

I'd still put Urijah Faber at #6, and once he beats Mike Brown in a couple of weeks, I'll give him the #5 spot over Miguel Torres.

1 Fedor
2 Anderson
3 GSP
4 Machida
5 Torres

and mortis, in reference to faber, i'll sig bet you with mike brown. you choose my signature if i faber wins, i choose yours if brown wins. deal?


lol.. I'll take that bet.. this'll be a fun bet.

cheers


thinkin' thinkin' thinkin'
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Blue on Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:19 am

I am interested to see if you guys think your top 10s should be changed now that Brown beat Faber again.
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:27 am

Blue wrote:I am interested to see if you guys think your top 10s should be changed now that Brown beat Faber again.

nope, we don't do top 50s, so i don't have to take faber off anything. Laughing
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mitch Ciccarelli on Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:09 pm

My Top 10 p4p:

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Anderson Silva
3. GSP
4. Lyoto Machida
5. Miguel Torres
6. Mike Brown
7. Gegard Mousasi
8. B.J Penn (Razz)
9. Rashad Evans
10. Jose Aldo (ok maybe it's too soon to put him here. But he's a freaking killer, and has been tearing through everyone. Call me crazy but I believe he'll defeat Mike Brown.)
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  Mortis on Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:48 pm

DFDmike wrote:
Mortis wrote:
DFDmike wrote:
Mortis wrote:Updated List (Top 5):

1) Georges St. Pierre
2) Anderson Silva
3) Fedor Emelianenko
4) Lyoto Machida
5) Miguel Torres

I'd still put Urijah Faber at #6, and once he beats Mike Brown in a couple of weeks, I'll give him the #5 spot over Miguel Torres.

1 Fedor
2 Anderson
3 GSP
4 Machida
5 Torres

and mortis, in reference to faber, i'll sig bet you with mike brown. you choose my signature if i faber wins, i choose yours if brown wins. deal?


lol.. I'll take that bet.. this'll be a fun bet.

cheers


thinkin' thinkin' thinkin'

lol
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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

Post  DFDmike on Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:51 pm

Mitch Ciccarelli wrote:My Top 10 p4p:

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Anderson Silva
3. GSP
4. Lyoto Machida
5. Miguel Torres
6. Mike Brown
7. Gegard Mousasi
8. B.J Penn (Razz)
9. Rashad Evans
10. Jose Aldo (ok maybe it's too soon to put him here. But he's a freaking killer, and has been tearing through everyone. Call me crazy but I believe he'll defeat Mike Brown.)

wow... that list is insane! mike brown at 6?! rashad should be above brown, mousasi, and penn. and aldo?! jesus people... yes, i know sherdog has brown up there but the WEC is so overrated. looks what happens when they come over? faber was never amazing. someone beating him proves his skill deficit, not inflates theirs. look at the jens pulver fights. no p4p top fighter should struggle with that washed up can.

did we forget thiago alves exists still?? and jake shields, to me, is nearing the top 10 or at the bottom. rampage is up there. even gray maynard looks to be a threat. frankie edgar who is small for his weight class. kenny florian should be talked about. those are the bubble guys in my book. those guys are better than mike brown, mousasi, aldo. i think cain velasquez is a newcomer to look at. he is so much lighter than most of the guys he fights and absolutely dominates. a clear victory over kongo and he should be top 15. lighter HWs don't get the recognition they deserve. they fight 40 pounds below some opponents.
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DFDmike

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Re: Your Top 10 Pound for Pound List

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