If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

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If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  DFDmike on Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:43 am

How many of you see the beginning of our next Liddell, Hughes, Tito, etc.?

All of these guys, including BJ are of a different generation than the newest stars in the sport and it's only a matter of time before they are weeded out. We saw it first with Royce and Shammy, then Frye and Coleman... and well, you all know the rest.

What is one thing these guys ALL had/have in common?? As the sport passed them by they all still had the confidence of being the best. They all, eventually, were brutally proven wrong.

Is BJ different because he a complete fighter compared to Liddell and Hughes and the others and he is still young enough to develop alongside the greener guys in the sport?

Or do you see this fight setting up the beginning of the end for BJ? Will he lose to GSP, then to Florian, and then before you know it, be the Jens Pulver of the UFC??

Honestly, I don't know where I stand. Yes, I think GSP will win, but I don't know if that means BJ is losing it. I just think that we might just be coming close to history in the making with the end of BJ Penn's hype... (finally)
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  Jennifer on Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:14 am

I do think BJ will lose to GSP but that I don't think that will be the beginning of his end. GSP is so much better than anyone in the WW division right now and losing to him doesn't mean it's time to throw in the towel.
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  Mortis on Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:52 am

If Penn loses to GSP, will that be the beginning of the end of BJ? No. BJ shouldn't even be fighting at a weight higher than 155, he's just gettin' greedy for another title.. btw, he's 2-3 (yes, that's 2 wins and 3 losses) in weight classes higher than 155 (1-3 at 170, and 1-0 at 185).. and, though he is a good fighter and fun to watch (sometimes), Jens Pulver is overrated, the only people worth mentioning that he beat were Dennis Hallman and BJ Penn (Hallman by UD and BJ by Majority Decision in 2001 and 2002).. well, except for his recent win over Cub Swanson.

And although I'm not a big fan of BJ's, I say he's still young enough to get better and develop. He just turned 30 a few weeks ago. Most fighters seem to be at their peak at 30, and begin to go downhill at 35 (there are some exceptions, like Randy Couture). In comparison, he's about average in age to the top fighters today.

Anderson Silva - 33
Rashad Evans - 29
Rampage - 30
GSP - 27
Lyoto Machida - 29
Forrest Griffin - 29

And the one's in the lightweight division -

Sean Sherk - 35
Tyson Griffin - 24
Clay Guida - 27
Kenny Florian - 32
Roger Huerta - 25
Kurt Pelligrino - 29
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  DFDmike on Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:24 am

its not as much age, it's the sport passing you by. BJ has been at the top by many for some time. When he loses, he will not be "green" enough to want to learn new tricks and get better. no one like hughes or liddell or any of those guys who are still there physically, have decided to re-evaluate their skill sets after falling and that's the main reason they ultimately fail.

if somebody would have told you hughes was going to fall off the planet after his UFC 63 (i think) win over BJ penn you would've laughed. this isn't something you see coming. it's just abrupt.
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  Mortis on Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:52 pm

DFDmike wrote:its not as much age, it's the sport passing you by. BJ has been at the top by many for some time. When he loses, he will not be "green" enough to want to learn new tricks and get better. no one like hughes or liddell or any of those guys who are still there physically, have decided to re-evaluate their skill sets after falling and that's the main reason they ultimately fail.

if somebody would have told you hughes was going to fall off the planet after his UFC 63 (i think) win over BJ penn you would've laughed. this isn't something you see coming. it's just abrupt.

If BJ loses to GSP, that'll just mean that GSP is better than BJ. That's it. Hughes lost to GSP twice, because GSP is better than Hughes... to me, Hughes didn't really start going downhill until his last fight with his loss against Thiago Alves, who isn't quite a well known name like Hughes, GSP, and Penn are.

Wait.. let me back up here.. I see what you're saying.. if BJ loses to GSP, do you think that he will start going downhill after that. That -- I can see. Looking at the great fighters like Hughes and Liddell that started going downhill.... Liddell lost to Rampage after a 4 year win streak, and has gone 1-3 since. Although, Rampage is nowhere near a scrub fighter.... that was beginning of his downhill movement, like Hughes' losses against GSP, which led to his downhill movement.

So.. going back to your question.. if BJ loses, will he start heading downhill? I think he might.. but I also think it would have happened anyways.. I still think BJ is an overrated fighter.
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  chainsaw Rivera on Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:24 pm

I think if he loses to gsp,it will be the end for him in welterweight class but not for lightweight.He's big for 155 and I think he'll be champ in that class for a long time.It took an injured rib for hughs to finish him.in bj vs gsp,gsp knew he couldnt finish him thats y he decided to figh a smart with him,to win by decision.

To say BJ Penn is overated when he beat gomi(when gomi was at the top)in a great fight and gave hughs and gsp a hard time well...I dont agree with that.
I hope gsp wins!
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  Jennifer on Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:59 pm

I don't think he stands a chance in the WW divison against even the top 10 guys. It's not the right weight class for him and like some else said, he's greedy, plain and simple. But that's alright, I believe GSP will bruise that LARGE ego of his and knock him down to his rightful class.
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  astrowhiz on Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:36 am

I think BJ's ego might save him from going on the slide if he loses to GSP (which like everyone I think he will)
A lot of fighters seem to be confidence fighters and find it difficult to handle a few losses on the bounce. BJ is such a big head I reckon he'll still think he's the better fighter and be back for more. I'm not a big fan of his but I have to give props for having a tussle with GSP whatever the motivation (I could be wrong but didn't he once fight Machida at LH or something. Talk about self confidence)
The difference with Liddell is that he's always been a one dimensional fighter and it's too late now to improve his game. Hughes is more of a psychological thing cos I reckon he's still a decent fighter in the WW division but he's already spoken about retiring about a year ago. His heart's not in it any more.
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  DFDmike on Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:31 am

chainsaw Rivera wrote:
To say BJ Penn is overated when he beat gomi(when gomi was at the top)

actually no... gomi hadn't even fought in pride yet. he was coming off a shooto (i think) loss to joachim hansen going into that fight. AFTER the BJ penn fight, he won his next 10 fights. and it is VERY EASY to call someone overrated when most hail them as the best fighter in the world... i think BJ isn't even top 10 fighter P4P.
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Re: If History Means Anything, it Will be a Hard Night for BJ

Post  chainsaw Rivera on Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:52 pm

Do you guys want to see my list of p4p hehe.
1Ken shamrock(he is the most dangerous man after all!)
2Bob sapp(he does deserve it after his last win)
3Juni browni
4Phil baroni
5Kimbo slice(the face of mma)
6Butter bean
7Chainsaw Rivera
8Tank abbot
9John cena
10Fador emelianenko(I guess he deserves to be here)
(No animals were hurt in the making of this list)
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